John Lloyd Marlow
Sorry to take so long to get back to you as I have been udating some of my pages relating to the Botetourt family.
It was great to get your package of information and your family trees. I find it facinating to hear
your theory about the parentage of Sir John de Botetourt and that he is legitimate a decendant of
Edward I.
You say that the Maurice Boddy records indicate that you are decendant
of the Botetourt family.
The connection through
Joyce de Zouche (de Botetourt)
and the Mortimer family is still something
that I am looking at.
The Wikitree pages and the Wikipedia pages do not reveal any clarity for me as yet.
Joyce de Zouche
was married to William la Zouche in 1329??
Sir John de Botetourt, 2nd Lord Botetourt and grandson of Sir John de Botetourt (of Belchamp Walter chantry chapel fame), was married to Joyce de Zouche - according to the Wikitree record.
The research into the first Sir John de Botetourt (Belchamp Walter chantry) life has revealed much information. The research of his descendants is leading me down a whole new "rabbit hole"!
I feel guilty in not responding to you before now as you have obviously performed much research for yourself.
With your permission I would like to incorporate some of your research and charts in my own. I admit that at the moment I have only scratched the surface.
Looking more closely at some of your charts I agree with the comment (Notes) on the reliance on American sources, Douglas Richardson (associated with LDS). I also see that you that you think that one of the Zouches was involved with the death of Piers Gaveston. It is my understanding that Sir John de Botetourt, of Belchamp Walter, was also.
The reference to Gerald Paget and a footnote on the Hailes Abbey Chronicals seems to be similar to that of F.N. Craig, The American Genealogist, in respect to "supporting evidence" of the parentage of Botetourt.
My research was from the perspective of the Sir John who has a chantry in the church at Belchamp Walter and that it is unclear (to me at least) who his father was. Your research follows the connection through Joan of Acre, both lead to a connection with Edward I.
I do have access to the archive of Maurice Boddy's website and am more than happy to provide links to it. While I have quoted Wikipedia and other user participant sources I am more likely trust the orginal sources.
Re-reading your letter to Jan I am interested to see your conclusions relating to the connection of your heritage and the Sacheverell family. The marriage of Joyce de Botetourt to Sir Baldwin de Freville was new to me as I had not followed the descendants of my Sir John. I was more interested in the activities of who was obviously a significant player in 14th Century Edwardian history. My Sir John served both Edward I and Edward II as governor of his prison for the captured nobles of the Battle of Dunbar in 1296.
Sir John was then in the service of Edward I in Scotland as a Justicar in Galloway, warden of Lochmaben, Annan Nithsdale and Dumfries. (1304-1307)
In 1311 and 1312 Sir John was involved with Hereford and Pembrooke in the Ordinances in an attempt to control Edward II and was involved in the capture of Piers Gaveston in 1312 (your gay ancestor().
In 1322 Sir John fought at the Battle of Boroughbridge, probably as a commander as he was 57 years old. This was on the side of the Thomas, Earl of Lancaster against king Edward but he was pardoned and fined £1,000.
Sir John had a son Thomas and Thomas had a son who became the 2nd Lord Botetourt, who was your ancestor via Sir Balwin de Freville.
I also see that The Montgomery family or de Montgomerie
is connected to the Sacheverell family.
Isabella Montgomery being the mother of Catherine Sacheverell.
The Montgomerys of Faulkborne Hall form a connection to Belchamp Walter
in that Phillipa Montgomery married Thomas Montgomery, Phillipa being the daughter of John Helion, Esq.
and Edith Rolfe, circa 1460.
In a similar manner to my communication with you I have established a contact with Tomas O Helion who is descended from an ancient Norman family that also fought with William at the Conquest. Another connection to the Botetourt family.
Below are some of my notes relating to some of the families on your trees.
Joan of Acre and the de Clares
Joan was the ? daughter of Edward I (Price Edward at the time) when he was on crusade.
She first married Gilbert de Clare, 7th Earl of Gloucester. Her second marriage is a little more confusing as it was reported to have been in secret. The family names of Zouche and Mortimer are of relevance here.
Joan of Acre and Mortimer
Joan of Acre second marriage was to Ralph de Monthermer (it is not known if this is Mortimer). The variance in spellings is not unknown in historical records.
Joan of Acre's Daughter - Eleanor de Clare
Eleanor de Clare was also known as Baroness la Zouche (Eleanor la Zouche).
The Wikipedia page says:
and later on the Wikpedia page says:
Catherine Sacherevell of Morley, Derbyshire
Joyce de Botetourt and Sir Baldwin de Freville - 1387/88
The de Montgomery Family
Sir Henry Sacherevell and Isabella Montgomery are featured in John's heritage.
The Wikitree page on Sir Henry Sacherevell has details on the Lords of Morley. Futher research needs to be performed as there is a connection to the Zouche family.
John Sacheverell died at the Battle of Bosworth.
Leicestershire & Rutland Family History Society
John wrote an obiturary for the L&R FHS for Maurice Boddy. If I get the text for this I am more than happy to post it on this website.