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William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury

In or before 1167 – 7 March 1226 - the 12th and 13th Centuries

The connection of the Longespée family name to the history of Belchamp Walter comes via a marriage to Ida Wake. Or possibly Ida Longespée, 2nd wife of William de Beauchamp.

Wikipedia says:

" William was an illegitimate son of Henry II, King of England. His mother was unknown for many years until the discovery of a charter William made that mentions "Comitissa Ida, mater mea" (Countess Ida, my mother).[2][3] This referred to Ida de Tosny, a member of the prominent Tosny (or Toesny) family, who had married Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk[4] in 1181.

The following is either Wikipedia or Thomas Wright:(probably Wikipedia)

" Ida Longespée, married firstly Ralph who was son of Ralph de Somery, Baron of Dudley, and Margaret, daughter of John Marshal;[13] she married secondly William de Beauchamp, Baron of Bedford, by whom she had seven children.

This Ida is sometimes confused with Ida II Longespée, who married Sir Walter FitzRobert of Woodham Walter, Essex, by whom she had issue including Ela FitzWalter, wife of William de Odyngsells. Ida II Longespée has been given different parents by different genealogists; G. Andrews Moriarty suggested the two Idas were sisters; Gerald Paget suggests Ida II who married Walter FitzRobert may have been the daughter of William Longespée II, Earl of Salisbury, by his wife, Idoine de Camville. "

Douglas Richardson has weighed in on this and there is a log thread on Google Groups where the geneology of the two Idas is discussed.

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From the Wikipedia page on William de Beauchamp

Children of William de Beauchamp and Ida Longespee were: Maud de Beauchamp b abt 1234, d bef Apr 1273.
She md Roger de Mowbray abt 1247, son of William de Mowbray and Avice. Ela de Beauchamp b abt 1240, Essex, England, d 1266.
She md Baldwin Wake abt 1254, son of Hugh Wake and Joan de Stuteville.
Beatrice de Beauchamp b abt 1245, prob Bedford, Bedfordshire, England, d 1280-1281.
She md Sir Thomas Fitz Otho bef 1264.
Their daughter, Maud/Matilda Fitz Thomas md Sir John de Botetourte abt 1284.

Ida de Tosny

Ralph de Tosny, Lord of Conches was a companion to William at Hastings.

According to Wikpedia:

Ida de Tosny, Countess of Norfolk (died after 1181), was a Norman royal mistress. Named after her grandmother Ida de Hainaut, she was the daughter of Ralph IV de Tosny (died 1162) and his wife Margaret (born c. 1125 and living in 1185), a daughter of Robert de Beaumont, 2nd Earl of Leicester.[1]

Relationship to King Henry II Ida de Tosny was a royal ward and mistress of Henry II, King of England, by whom she was mother of one of his illegitimate sons, William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury,[2] (c. 1176 – 7 March 1226), as demonstrated by the discovery of a charter of William mentioning "Comitissa Ida, mater mea" (Countess Ida, my mother).[3] Ida was not the first English royal ward to be taken as a royal mistress. Isabel de Beaumont (Elizabeth de Beaumont), was the ward of King Henry I and the mistress of one of his sons.

Victoria History

Ida de Tosny - Possible mother of William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury

The following needs formatting - I think I have a copy of Victoria History for Essex.

L. THE LAND OF ROBERT DE TOESNI [TODENEIO] 8 HUNDRET OF UDELESFORT [UTTLESFORD] CESEWIC [Cheswick (Hall) 3 ] was held, in King Edward's time, by i free man as a manor and as i^ hides. Then as now (semper) i plough on the demesne, and 2 ploughs belonging to the men. Then and afterwards 4 villeins ; now 3. (There are) now 2 bordars. (There is) wood(land) for 100 swine, (and) 4 acres of meadow. It is worth 40 shillings. fo. 91 LI. THE LAND OF RALF DE TOESNI [TODENEIO]4 HUNDRET OF HERLAUA [HARLOW] OUESHAM [Housham (Hall) 6 ] is held of R[alf] by Roger (as) half a hide which was held by Etmar. Then as now (semper) i plough. It was then worth 10 shillings ; now 15. LAGHEFARA [(Magdalen ?) Laver 6 ], which was held by Sexi' 7 as a manor and as i hide, held of R[alf] by Roger. Then 4 villeins ; now 3. (There are) now 7 bordars. Then 4 serfs ; now 3.

Then 2 ploughs on the demesne; now I. (There is) wood(land) for 30 swine, (and) 16 acres of meadow. Then as now (semper) 13 swine, and 60 sheep, and 4 cows. It is worth now as then (semper) 70 shillings.

1 No reference to this holding can be detected in the account of Peter de Valognes's fief. 3 The lord of the great Belvoir fief. His name was derived from Toesni (Tosny) in Normandy. A manor in Chreshall. 4 The head of his barony was at Flamstead, Herts, and the origin of his name was the same as Robert's. 6 A manor (formerly a hamlet) in Matching. 6 All the Lavers were in Ongar (not Harlow) Hundred. Morant probably assigned this Hun dred to Magdalen Laver because the other Laver entries clearly refer to High and Little Laver. This is a sound conclusion, but the manor is not found, it would seem, in the hands of Ralf's heirs.

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References: - a note on these

  • William Longespée; (In or before 1167 – 7 March 1226) - https:// en.wikipedia.org /wiki/ William_Longesp%C3%A9e ,_3rd_Earl_of_Salisbury
  • Ida Longespee de Beauchamp's, 1st husband, Ralph Somery - https:// www.wikitree.com /g2g/393407/ longespee-beauchamps-husband-ralph-somery-need-clean-please
  • Question about William (Beauchamp) de Beauchamp’s wife Isabella de Sacre Wake - https://www.wikitree.com/ g2g/987413/question-about-william-beauchamp-beauchamps-isabella-sacre
  • Ida de Tosny - https:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Ida_de_Tosny - Mother of William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury,

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